Braking - My Take

[Navy Boy]

The RT has linked brakes, and telelever suspension. Nil form dive, even under having braking. The bike "squats".

Feeling spoiled.

Yep - All the Hondas I've ridden with the linked braking system (VFR 800s for instance) seemed to work well and make things better rather than worse as much of the UK biking press seemed to think at the time. Perhaps I'm just a bit odd (Quite likely I know ).

Another aspect of course is the type of bike. Cruisers tend to favour back braking more simply because of their weight distribution but my R1's back brake, whilst working perfectly well, isn't as useful in normal riding. One of the most useful things I found out about braking (When doing my Ride Forever Courses for instance) is keeping your head up and vision focused on an object in the distance. Do that and using both brakes seems to just come naturally anyway.

[Viking01]

Yep - All the Hondas I've ridden with the linked braking system (VFR 800s for instance) seemed to work well and make things better rather than worse as much of the UK biking press seemed to think at the time. Perhaps I'm just a bit odd (Quite likely I know ).

Another aspect of course is the type of bike. Cruisers tend to favour back braking more simply because of their weight distribution but my R1's back brake, whilst working perfectly well, isn't as useful in normal riding. One of the most useful things I found out about braking (When doing my Ride Forever Courses for instance) is keeping your head up and vision focused on an object in the distance. Do that and using both brakes seems to just come naturally anyway.

It's always puzzled me why some people have "bagged" the linked brake implementation on the VFR800. Having ridden over 100K kms on my old 2008 VFR800, I've always found the linked braking on the VFR800 to be effective, but relatively unobtrusive.

Mind you, getting rid of Mr Honda's budget front suspension (having forks revalved and stronger / linear springs installed at the 50K mark) did make a considerable difference (reduction) to the amount of dive during braking.

The VFR800 could easily brake and stop comfortably from 100km/hr during "emergency braking" practice during Roadsafe courses. Even with its lack of ABS. Though Navy Boy's comment about "keeping your head up and vision out into the distance during hard braking" is important.

I've yet to ride a large BMW and compare braking performance, so I can't comment. But I suspect - just from past comments of some BMW riders on the KB forum - that the Telelever engineering implementation (coupled with linked brakes) improves the braking experience even further under normal road riding.

https://www.bmwmotorcycles.com/en/di...telelever.html

[rastuscat]

It's always puzzled me why some people have "bagged" the linked brake implementation on the VFR800. Having ridden over 100K kms on my old 2008 VFR800, I've always found the linked braking on the VFR800 to be effective, but relatively unobtrusive.

Mind you, getting rid of Mr Honda's budget front suspension (having forks revalved and stronger / linear springs installed at the 50K mark) did make a considerable difference (reduction) to the amount of dive during braking.

The VFR800 could easily brake and stop comfortably from 100km/hr during "emergency braking" practice during Roadsafe courses. Even with its lack of ABS. Though Navy Boy's comment about "keeping your head up and vision out into the distance during hard braking" is important.

I've yet to ride a large BMW and compare braking performance, so I can't comment. But I suspect - just from past comments of some BMW riders on the KB forum - that the Telelever engineering implementation (coupled with linked brakes) improves the braking experience even further under normal road riding.

https://www.bmwmotorcycles.com/en/di...telelever.html

Yup, telelever is a gem. I drifted from a series of RTs onto a 1600GTL for 18 months or so, the suspension on the GTL was similar in performance, but very different in construction.

I've also had 3 x F800STs, all of whjich dove under braking, having just simple tradional forks. It's how they keep the price down, I guess.

I knid of feel like I've been spoiled over the years, as I've had fairly high tech bikes. I don't really recall thew handling of the last standard bike I had, a GPz550H2.

[malcy25]

I generally don't road ride these days, 100% diet of track. I 'll admit I don't have the mental capacity spare to use the rear brake when racing in the dry. Barely in the wet when racing....yet on my road push bike I use it a bit!

Modern wets, holy crap you can brake hard...

Robbie Phillis rode my TZ750 at Motofest in 2018 and I had to fit new rear pads and the rear disc was blue....

[F5 Dave]

I want a thumb brake on my dirtbike as
1. When I'm flailing about down a tricky hill and can't bring myself to get my foot back on the rear peg and pedal
2. Poor man's traction control.

I actually take the weight off the peg when seated to give finer control of the rear which I read in some dirtbike book. Never tried it on the street.


Accessing memory banks. . I remember Chris (dynotech where we used to hang out) showing us Bruce's rear brake. Vaguely think the lever itself was made of Perspex with a tip screwed on the end, which i suppose was the material that comes to hand as a glazier.

Actually seen ally front brake disks made for buckets which can last/work well if organic pad used and slots cut for expansion.

[pete376403]

Actually seen ally front brake disks made for buckets which can last/work well if organic pad used and slots cut for expansion.

Kawasaki used plasma sprayed ally disks on the H2Rs -the two stroke ones - at some point, IIRC from my Cycle magazine readings

[F5 Dave]

There were a few. Heron Suzuki played with them I think.

[george formby]

I want a thumb brake on my dirtbike as
1. When I'm flailing about down a tricky hill and can't bring myself to get my foot back on the rear peg and pedal
2. Poor man's traction control.

I actually take the weight off the peg when seated to give finer control of the rear which I read in some dirtbike book. Never tried it on the street.


Accessing memory banks. . I remember Chris (dynotech where we used to hang out) showing us Bruce's rear brake. Vaguely think the lever itself was made of Perspex with a tip screwed on the end, which i suppose was the material that comes to hand as a glazier.

Actually seen ally front brake disks made for buckets which can last/work well if organic pad used and slots cut for expansion.

I set up my rear brake lever so that I have to move my foot to find it, down on a road bike and up on a dirt bike. Don't have to move much, just enough to make it a deliberate and controlled stomp.

[Bonez]

I've set my rear brakes with a bit more travel so the rear brake light comes on a bit earlier to ward tail gaters off without applying the rear brakes and it makes sure I really want to use them as needed.

Owning an older m/c with marginal front brakes you need to use all the brakeing you can-engine breaking, front disk brake and huge rear drum brake. Most of the time I don't use the brakes much at all and use the gears. A much more sedate pace and no need for panic braking most of the time. That's open road stuff. Around town I choose front, rear or a combination of both depending on the conditions and circumstances.

[F5 Dave]

I set up my rear brake lever so that I have to move my foot to find it, down on a road bike and up on a dirt bike. Don't have to move much, just enough to make it a deliberate and controlled stomp.

We used to teach have it a bit high on road to give a slight delay. Lower could work too I guess. On the front first to transfer the weight then when you start applying the rear it is on a lighter rear end already, rather than apply to a rear that gets weight transferred off it and locks, distracting the rider.

At the hoosiwhatsi motorcycle roadshow thingy held at southwoods etc they did some demonstrations. They were suggesting rear first to settle the bike then front. That really didn't make any sense to me. Firstly for above reason. Then why would you want to delay application of your most effective brake for longer than the reaction time where you are coasting? It seems like squandering metres.

I then considered they were doing displays on oversized adventure bikes. Perhaps the long travel suspension favours that?
ABS would mask the weight transfer locking of the rear of course.

[Gremlin]

I knid of feel like I've been spoiled over the years, as I've had fairly high tech bikes. I don't really recall thew handling of the last standard bike I had, a GPz550H2.

The biggest thing is understanding how your bike works, and when you have 3 (ahem ) that have different technologies - including the CB919 with no traction control or ABS, you need to adjust and ride with it in mind.

Try adding in different gear too. Road boots, you can feel the pedal very well, modulate well. Adventure boots, less. The MX boots I use on the 1090R, well, it's like putting a sledgehammer on the back brake, to the point I don't often turn off rear ABS, because I can't feel when I'm starting to apply pressure, and know I've applied too much when the bike is trying to swap ends because the rear is locked. Trying to release pressure, the only option is not using... I did have an interesting finish to a steep sandy hill in December as ABS stopped the bike from locking and the finish was a tad quicker than the start...

[rastuscat]

The biggest thing is understanding how your bike works, and when you have 3 (ahem ) that have different technologies - including the CB919 with no traction control or ABS, you need to adjust and ride with it in mind.

Try adding in different gear too. Road boots, you can feel the pedal very well, modulate well. Adventure boots, less. The MX boots I use on the 1090R, well, it's like putting a sledgehammer on the back brake, to the point I don't often turn off rear ABS, because I can't feel when I'm starting to apply pressure, and know I've applied too much when the bike is trying to swap ends because the rear is locked. Trying to release pressure, the only option is not using... I did have an interesting finish to a steep sandy hill in December as ABS stopped the bike from locking and the finish was a tad quicker than the start...

Boots make a huge difference. I don't ever ride with steel toe boots. Ever, Nil feel of the gear lever.

[SaferRides]

We used to teach have it a bit high on road to give a slight delay. Lower could work too I guess. On the front first to transfer the weight then when you start applying the rear it is on a lighter rear end already, rather than apply to a rear that gets weight transferred off it and locks, distracting the rider.

At the hoosiwhatsi motorcycle roadshow thingy held at southwoods etc they did some demonstrations. They were suggesting rear first to settle the bike then front. That really didn't make any sense to me. Firstly for above reason. Then why would you want to delay application of your most effective brake for longer than the reaction time where you are coasting? It seems like squandering metres.

I then considered they were doing displays on oversized adventure bikes. Perhaps the long travel suspension favours that?
ABS would mask the weight transfer locking of the rear of course.

I've found applying the rear just before the front does settle the bike, perhaps because it slows the weight transfer to the front wheel? But I would never do it in an emergency as you just want to get hard on the front as quickly as possible without locking.

Similarly, I never use the rear when braking hard because there is little or no weight on the back wheel. That's the case on a sports bike anyway, but I expect cruisers would need a different approach.

[Gremlin]

Boots make a huge difference. I don't ever ride with steel toe boots. Ever, Nil feel of the gear lever.

When you know you're stepping off the bike at some point (even multiple times in the day), be it sand, river, whatever, protection comes first...

Zero lateral flex around ankle etc. Hinged front and back, to give limited forward back movement.

Actually, on a semi funny note, as we had assembled at a gas station and about to head out, one of the rider instructors was taking a learner out. Normal pants and shoes, had to go get gloves to cover his hands etc. I stepped forward (as the instructor knows me) and offered up to give him an idea of the gear. Front and back armour, the boots etc.... Hopefully he learnt something...

[pete376403]

This story - https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/124...horrific-crash

Great that he survived but look at the pictures - first the skid mark and then the one of the bike. High handlebars and forward foot controls. My guess is he didn't touch the front brake, locked up the rear, high sided into the bank and possibly the bike landed on top.

It's not (from the picture) a very sharp corner so should have had visibility of the sheep early enough.

However, he lived and thats a win.