What's happened to all the track day threads?

**DamianW** · 8th February 2015, 19:45

Maha, when was the last time you or anyone else critiqued your riding? My self-assessment is daily and in all weathers :humble:

Btw, Prorider Ride Forever Gold and Silver courses are a good day out and provide an invaluable opportunity for coaching and feedback on general roadcraft. Chris Smith is an excellent coach and the student coach ratio is only 4:1 :up:

**eldog** · 8th February 2015, 20:20

Originally Posted by DamianW

Maha, when was the last time you or anyone else critiqued your riding? My self-assessment is daily and in all weathers :humble:

Btw, Prorider Ride Forever Gold and Silver courses are a good day out and provide an invaluable opportunity for coaching and feedback on general roadcraft. Chris Smith is an excellent coach and the student coach ratio is only 4:1 :up:

I did a Prorider Bronze course - I did learn quite a bit, how far behind I was on the skills, How I didn't need to race, how most riders had no idea about whats around them, how they raced around corners regardless of road position and the gear they wore. How I enjoyed watching from the back-o I didn't get run over.

Don't get me wrong - They were told in the strongest terms, whether they listened who knows?

yes quite a few things have stuck - which is good

Are there other people besides Chris? We didn't meet in the best manner.

I prefer 1:1 so I am going back to Phil at RiderSkills for a refresher, I need the 1:1 and I need to be told.

**FROSTY:Me** · 8th February 2015, 20:25

maha --long time no see matey. how didya get on with that track bike you were building for buckets?

**DamianW** · 8th February 2015, 20:25

Originally Posted by eldog

Are there other people besides Chris?

Yes, there's a team of coaches each of which look after specific geographies. To find out more go to the bottom of this page for a list of courses, dates and venues. Btw, Prorider also do track coaching at Pukekohe.

http://www.prorider.co.nz/motorcycle....php?course=31

**DamianW** · 8th February 2015, 21:16

Originally Posted by Maha

Just keep on amusing yourself by making shit up in a lame effort to remedy your previous massive wank statement.

Now if you can be bothered to read and learn something you'll get a flavour of how many years a track coaching session is worth (according to some) from these rider testimonials:

http://www.superbikeschool.com/student-quotes/

Need anymore 'names' fella? Lmfao

**James Deuce** · 8th February 2015, 21:45

Originally Posted by DamianW

More than a few riders in NZ and far off places have told me that one days worth of track coaching equates to 5-10 years of road riding experience.

Utter bullshit. The track and the road have no natural interface. The only commonality is that you're riding a motorcycle.

I wish the myth that being able to control a motorcycle at speed, in a controlled environment = "super road skills". People who ride on the road need way more training about risk control in an uncontrolled environment. Superb observation skills are more useful on the road than being able to tune a corner entry to perfection. There's a cavernous gap between braking on the road and braking on the track. Braking on a track is adjusting your velocity to minimise the amount of time you spend off the throttle. On the road you need to be able to to do everything from trickle along using the rear brake to help control an inherently unstable platform to coming to a dead stop at open road speed as quickly as possible.

Yes, yes, you learn what a motorcycle can REALLY do on a race track. You don't learn how to spot a junction between a main highway and driveway by spotting two rows of poplars leading from a house down behind a hill the road is curving behind.

Track days do not create better road riders.

I don't care what names you quote, they ALL have an interest the Superbike School as a business. And that's fine, there's nowt wrong with business, especially one that cool. But claiming that "1 track day is 5-10 years worth of road riding" is dangerously irresponsible. The two environments could not be more different.

**DamianW** · 8th February 2015, 21:58

^ I'm not making the claim Jimmy - others are. I'm just stating that 'other riders have made the point'. Clearly you and the other bloke read what you want. Btw, the testimonials are customer testimonials - the school just publishes what customers state. What's so contrived about that FFS?

**James Deuce** · 8th February 2015, 22:09

Customers just spent money "honing their skills", plus they have had a day of exercising their adrenal gland. Ego demands they say it was brilliant and they came away from it a shit load better than they went into it.

I didn't read anything into what you said or the customer testimonials. It's the same thing I've seen claimed for years and there's never any quantity or quality of data to back the claim up. Only justifiably excited ravings from people who just had the time of their lives. I know what it's like. I LOVE it. But it has never added any capability to my road riding, at all.

**DamianW** · 8th February 2015, 22:13

^ Maybe it's just you and a minority whose riding hasn't benefited whilst many others have? Just saying.

**James Deuce** · 8th February 2015, 22:53

I don't think you're reading what I'm saying. The road is orders of magnitude more dangerous than the track and the skill set required is completely different. Because of track time, if I encounter a corner that tightens I don't spaz and end up in a field, because pegs and pipes scraping isn't a big deal. But, and I'll repeat it it to see if you do read, the way you use the brakes on a track are completely different to the road. All you're doing is setting your entry speed at a point that allows you to get back on the throttle at the earliest opportunity. Ride like that on the road and you are begging the universe to chuck you a massive surprise when you least need it.

The only data you have to support your assertion is anecdotal and I'm pretty sure that ACC could draw a different conclusion that track days make road riders take more unnecessary risks if they could be bothered finding out if people had been to a track day before their single vehicle, no other mitigating factors, mid-corner high speed biff into a hedge.

**clmintie** · 8th February 2015, 23:20

Hi Frosty, nice to hear from you the other day. Yes Trackdays are alive and well. I go to most of them at Hampton Downs with cameras, have a look here www.clmintiepix.co.nz and you'll get an idea of who and what sort of bikes and riders attend. very well organised by the guys at http://www.playdayontrack.co.nz/news.php and a great place to hang out... See you there soon...

**DamianW** · 9th February 2015, 04:54

Originally Posted by James Deuce

I don't think you're reading what I'm saying. The road is orders of magnitude more dangerous than the track and the skill set required is completely different. Because of track time, if I encounter a corner that tightens I don't spaz and end up in a field, because pegs and pipes scraping isn't a big deal. But, and I'll repeat it it to see if you do read, the way you use the brakes on a track are completely different to the road. All you're doing is setting your entry speed at a point that allows you to get back on the throttle at the earliest opportunity. Ride like that on the road and you are begging the universe to chuck you a massive surprise when you least need it.

The only data you have to support your assertion is anecdotal and I'm pretty sure that ACC could draw a different conclusion that track days make road riders take more unnecessary risks if they could be bothered finding out if people had been to a track day before their single vehicle, no other mitigating factors, mid-corner high speed biff into a hedge.

On the increased dangers of road riding I don't disagree with you at all. I'm not even sure why there's a debate on why roads are different to tracks. As for using the brakes, it is quite normal to trail brakes on a public road in some circumstances for smoothing corner entry. It's also good to use body position to pivot the bike, again in some circumstances eg. to shift central mass, use less lean and maximise traction on decreasing radius turns. These techniques certainly work on the Coro Loop run. But anyway I digress.

If according to your logic, it were true that track training makes a rider inherently higher risk on the road then I don't think the head coach of CSS Aus/NZ would have his own full page monthly slot in BR Mag. Almost everything contained in those articles applies to the road - controlling 'Survival Reactions' (SR's) taken from Codes TOTW2 book comes to mind. I'm sure in response to this you will say that the messages are purely profit driven and are to be taken with a pinch of salt. What I'm saying is that the science behind what these guys teach works on the road in certain circumstances and arguably makes for safer riding.

**nzspokes** · 9th February 2015, 05:52

Originally Posted by James Deuce

Utter bullshit. The track and the road have no natural interface. The only commonality is that you're riding a motorcycle.

Rubbish. What you learn at a instructed track day gives you road skills. Maybe you have been to the wrong ones.

They teach how to look through a turn, how to chose a good line, how to brake effectively, how to change gear effectively etc

The main thing it gives you is tools to get you out of trouble on the road.

It is not Roadcraft training of course as with a good road surface and no other cars on the track they cant teach that.

**eldog** · 9th February 2015, 07:31

Thanks DamianW - that's a lot of info, something for people to think about

**FROSTY:Me** · 9th February 2015, 08:35

Originally Posted by James Deuce

Utter bullshit. The track and the road have no natural interface. The only commonality is that you're riding a motorcycle.

I wish the myth that being able to control a motorcycle at speed, in a controlled environment = "super road skills". People who ride on the road need way more training about risk control in an uncontrolled environment. Superb observation skills are more useful on the road than being able to tune a corner entry to perfection. There's a cavernous gap between braking on the road and braking on the track. Braking on a track is adjusting your velocity to minimise the amount of time you spend off the throttle. On the road you need to be able to to do everything from trickle along using the rear brake to help control an inherently unstable platform to coming to a dead stop at open road speed as quickly as possible.

Yes, yes, you learn what a motorcycle can REALLY do on a race track. You don't learn how to spot a junction between a main highway and driveway by spotting two rows of poplars leading from a house down behind a hill the road is curving behind.

Track days do not create better road riders.

I don't care what names you quote, they ALL have an interest the Superbike School as a business. And that's fine, there's nowt wrong with business, especially one that cool. But claiming that "1 track day is 5-10 years worth of road riding" is dangerously irresponsible. The two environments could not be more different.

Jim I find myself in the situation of both agreeing with you and disagreeing with you at exactly the same time.
I think he guts of it is that It comes down to what the individual rider is prepared to put into the track day and what they are wanting to get out of it.
Remember we are talking TRACK day not race day.
For an inexperienced rider particularly a track day can be an invaluable LOCATION to practice skills that you NEED in emergency situations on the road. Finding just how hard you can brake when you need to. How far you can lean your bike. Use of front n rear brake correctly. And a bunch of other skills . All of which you just would not want to practice on the road with trucks,ditches etc around.
The PROBLEM is that most of the very riders I'm talking about then think they are "riding gods"
Thinking that the new skills the have learned are ALL the skills they need. -IE that being able to brake to stop with tail waggling in the air. WORSE because they now have a skill they think they should use it.
Without the tempering you are referring to -IE without the other equally important skills.
BUT I say don't throw the baby out with the bathwater.
Those skills are still valuable skills. The important part needed and missing is blending those skills together with all the other survival skills a rider needs to ride safely on the road. Or Translating those skills into road use.
I see it like this. A rider is like a tradesman. There's time and place to make use of a big ol sledgehammer and equally time and place for a fine electrical screwdriver . A good tradesman has the range of tools in his toolbox and equally has the experience to know the time and place to use each tool.