Whats the next whinge going to be from Ducati?

[98tls]

Things dont seem to be going there way so after the foot stampings over one has to wonder what form the whinging will take this time and once again will the powers that be bend over and take a raping to accommodate them.http://www.superbike-news.co.uk/RaceResults.html

[Elysium]

What are they whinging about? Net is capped so don't have time to sort through that page you posted as it's taking too long to load.

[98tls]

What are they whinging about? Net is capped so don't have time to sort through that page you posted as it's taking too long to load. Was just a link to the results.Things didnt go there way so no doubt history will be repeated and they will attempt once again to have an advantage,nobody wants to sit outside a cafe on a bike that came second.

[Elysium]

Might see the new Ducati 1298 come out then and also a rule change from the govening body I surpose.

[98tls]

No doubt,wouldnt be surprised if the rest are sent back to 750cc just to be sure,fuck em i reckon,why they bend over and just dont say "fuck off and race Buell" i dont know.Err actually ive an idea why and the reality is its well sad.

[wbks]

I never really liked the idea that because an engine is naturally inferior to another in its fundamental design, the rules will change to accomodate it because someone stands to make profit. eg intro of fourstrokes into MX

[puddytat]

Why dont they do what Aprilla have done & go the V-way? Must be a worry that RSVR is on it so soon....:lol::clap:
Do they think that they'd lose customers or summing?

[98tls]

For awhile anyway "long may it continue".No doubt latte sales are on the decline.Can imagine a few of the knobs turning up at rallys with under inflated blimp suits and blue n white Ducs.

[Eddieb]

So exactly what whinging is this thread about?

No context or information about what Ducati is supposedly whinging about has been provided, so the only whinge so far is the original post which just sounds like whinging for the sake of attention if no detail is provided to back it up.

[imdying]

So exactly what whinging is this thread about?If you've followed a little production based raced, you'll know that Ducati have a bit of a cry, a bit of a sook, when they start losing. Twins are inferior to fours for racing, but it's their 'heritage' so they persevere, and get accommodated by the rule makers so everyone can make some money :rolleyes: This thread is just preempting the next cry.

MotoGP has been bloody excellent in that regard... Ducati stepped up, tossed the twins, built a four, and kicked arse. Which is how it should be (well obviously not the kicking arse bit, that's just the icing on the cake of course) :yes:

[Eddieb]

If you've followed a little production based raced, you'll know that Ducati have a bit of a cry, a bit of a sook, when they start losing. Twins are inferior to fours for racing, but it's their 'heritage' so they persevere, and get accommodated by the rule makers so everyone can make some money :rolleyes: This thread is just preempting the next cry.

MotoGP has been bloody excellent in that regard... Ducati stepped up, tossed the twins, built a four, and kicked arse. Which is how it should be (well obviously not the kicking arse bit, that's just the icing on the cake of course) :yes:

I'm well aware of the historical moaning by Ducati and despite owning 2 I'm not enough of a fanboy to claim that they are right.
Also while I wouldn't say the twin is inferior I would agree it's not the ideal engine configuration in an arena where peak power rules, bending the class rules to suit the manufacturers chosen setup does not create a fair and even playng field.

This thread however does still seem to be moaning for the sake of moaning.

[imdying]

Also while I wouldn't say the twin is inferior I would agree it's not the ideal engine configuration in an arena where peak power rules, bending the class rules to suit the manufacturers chosen setup does not create a fair and even playng field.Yep, not inferior, just inferior for racing... and even then, just that particular type of racing.

Totally agree about the even playing field... I've yet to see a racing class which intermingles engine configurations fairly. Godzilla 2.6 IL6 twin turbo computer controlled 4WD vs 5.0L pushrod V8 RWD... nice spectacle, but a totally retarded concept/contest; best thing the Aussies did to Bathurst was dumping one or the other (shame it was the V8s that won out though :lol:)


This thread however does still seem to be moaning for the sake of moaning.Heh, yup. However I think Mike is just having a hard time of it at the moment, wouldn't hurt for us to cut him some slack :)

[Badjelly]

Given that this World SBK is a production-based series, I don't think it's unreasonable to have different capacity limits for different bike configurations. The problem with the old (pre-2004?) rules was that the 33% capacity advantage of a 1000 twin over a 750 four was too large. The current 20% is about right. In terms of weight and performance, a Ducati 1198 is comparable to a Japanese 1000 four, whereas a Ducati 999 was altogether more machine than a 750 four.

In Supersport, triples are allowed a 12.5% capacity advantage vs a four, and twins a 25% advantage. This wasn't enough for the Ducati 750, so they replaced the bike with an 850 so they didn't have to compete. (And a damned nice bike it is, by all accounts.) But who would disagree that the Dayton 675 has woken up the world of middleweight sportsbikes and should be allowed to compete in World SS?

[Pwalo]

Given that this World SBK is a production-based series, I don't think it's unreasonable to have different capacity limits for different bike configurations. The problem with the old (pre-2004?) rules was that the 33% capacity advantage of a 1000 twin over a 750 four was too large. The current 20% is about right. In terms of weight and performance, a Ducati 1198 is comparable to a Japanese 1000 four, whereas a Ducati 999 was altogether more machine than a 750 four.

In Supersport, triples are allowed a 12.5% capacity advantage vs a four, and twins a 25% advantage. This wasn't enough for the Ducati 750, so they replaced the bike with an 850 so they didn't have to compete. (And a damned nice bike it is, by all accounts.) But who would disagree that the Dayton 675 has woken up the world of middleweight sportsbikes and should be allowed to compete in World SS?

Well the WSB/WSS set up isn't as difficult to understand as the AMA set up! They've got Buell 1125Rs and Ducati 848s competing against the Japanese 600s.

[stevo2001]

It maybe when Ducati were saying the Aprilia was a prototype and not a production bike.Here's a link ,if you wanna bother http://www.apriliaforum.com/forums/showthread.php?t=172098 .Piaggio(who owns Aprilia)sales were up 64% last year.A fair % of that was bikes off Ducati(I was one convert in 2000).Basically,eventually Ducati are gonna push for extra cc's and or some weight advantage.They will be really pissed off,when Aprilia gets the tire wear thing sorted out.Still Spies on the R1 is gonna be in the mix.Now!,you guy's get back to work.4.45pm on St Pats day here in Denver I'm off downtown.

[Eddieb]

Do the IL4's still have intake restrictions? I wasn't a big fan of that idea either. If a vehicle is to be allowed to compete in a series it should be able to compete to the best of it's mechanical ability, handicapping it by a method like that doesn't seem good sportsmanship.

I would much rather see a power to weight restriction applied. Any vehicle of any configuration can complete as long as the power weight ratio is within or does not exceed a specified range or amount. This should keep performance at a competitive level while allowing teams to focus on either or both of engine development and weight reduction that suits their chosen engine configuration. I think a mixed class run right offers a lot more interest and variation as different configurations excel in different track sections.


Heh, yup. However I think Mike is just having a hard time of it at the moment, wouldn't hurt for us to cut him some slack :)
I don't know Mike and his current situation from a bar of soap, I do know other posts of his I have read are normally fairly intelligent and above the usual standard of drivel you so often can get here. If he's having a hard time I hope he gets through it soon.
It annoys me though when people pre-empt something that hasn't happened and may or may not happen. Sure Ducati has a history that indicates there's a good chance it will and when they do it's open slather. But until they do it's merely speculation and gossip mongering.

It's the same as the constant 'Ducati's are unreliable', everyone loves to put them down, yet most of them have no real idea and are just going off what they read on a forum somewhere with no actual basis in reality.
My own experience in the 25,000km on mine is that they are as good if not better than some Japanese models. I've been on 1000km trips with Honda's, Kawasaki's etc where the only bike nothing fell off was my Ducati.

[imdying]

It's nice one that is, 888s have always been dead sexy, nice to hear it's treated you well (I'd wager that the reverse has applied too then).

I detect a hint of "He's correct, it is coming" from your post?

[slowpoke]

Faaark, Ducati have got nuthin' on the folk around here when it comes to the whinging champs: WSB stands for Whingy Sooky Bubba's.

Compare valve areas between a twin and 4 and all Ducati have been doing is seeking parity, not an advantage. Valve area = Horsepower.

Even when the 4's had a massive valve area advantage with the introduction of 1000's, Ducati still competed and competed well but at a huge cost disadvantage to make the twin competitive. The latest 1200cc twin rule levels the playing field by equalising valve area and running costs between 4's and twins. Simple. (ignoring the extra weight a twin still has to carry and not forgetting of course that twins are simply not capable of pulling the same revs as a 4, despite Ducati's best efforts with titanium rods and desmo valve gear etc.)

Ducati have easily been the most committed manufacturer in the paddock as they have fully backed/run a Factory team for what seems like for ever, with most of the Jappa's on again off again or hiding behind semi-supported defacto efforts. Try buying a WSB spec bike off Yamaha/Honda/Suzuki/Kawasaki and you'll be laughed at whereas Ducati are only too happy to supply very competitive WSB customer bikes. So who do you reckon is more deserving of success?

Tall poppy syndrome, peoples.

Ducati have set the standard for factory committment and teamwork and people want to punish them for it. If the rest of the manufacturers had shown half as much committment they'd all have better looking trophy cabinets. But no, they go off on tangents building TLR sacks of shit, or race the same ZX7RR's for what seems like decades, or fundamentally flawed RC45's that require huge develpment to go as well as the old RC30, or running a great effort on the stunning R7... and having a rider fuck it up with poor off track choices. They all dropped the ball while Ducati just stuck with evolving the tried and true and reaped their well deserved rewards.

The only other advantage the twins (which anyone could build) have had is with traction. Even with "Big Bang" two strokes around for decades it's only now that Yamaha have had the nouse to do something similar and eliminate that advantage. They are fully deserving of their recent success as a result.

Nup, the more the merrier, and that applies to manufacturers as much as machine types. Any rules that allow more variation is a great thing as far as far as I'm concerned.

[Dave_G]

Surely it comes down to whether you want to see all the major manufacturers competing and competitive or else you want WSB to become a procession of 4 cylinder bikes. Personally, I'll take the former as it makes for much better racing and the variety of bikes is fantastic this year, so I think the capacity rules have worked pretty well...and for the record I've never been an Italian fan!