Improving braking preformance

[sefer]

Not the norm for most I know, most people want their bikes to go faster :scooter: but now that winter is kinda here and there has been a few days where the road is wet/damp I've become unhappy with my break preformance (it was never great).

I've locked up and almost worn the car in front twice now (my fault), and had the same happen with a car pulling out in front of me. Each time the front and rear has locked, stalled the engine, and despite any efforts to regain wheel motion (releasing the break as much as possible/totally) I can't seem to get out of the slide.

The problems as I see them are:

Bad tyres - stock IRC tyres, not bad in dry, not good in wet
Suspension seems to dive too much on hard breaking

I don't really want to get new tyres at this point (cost factor, but I'll look into it).

Any suggestions on ways to improve on breaking (barring me actually paying attention ;) ). So far I've been told, tyres, pads, braided lines (in that order). I can't help but think that firming the forks will help too, but as far as I can tell the only way to do it is a higher rated oil (or I remember some saying 20c coins...). Cost IS an issue (and I've no idea what any of that does cost atm), but I'm willing to cough up if I know it'll help

Thanks for any ideas :)

[Lee Rusty]

before you blame the bike and spend money you dont need to
Evaluate your own preformence.

DOnt just grab the brakes until they lock up, they need to be applyied correctly, I would sugest you contact your local m/c school for so assistance
If you were in Auckland I would sort out you r probs in an hour or so.

It will save you a lot of money

[qldzxr250a]

as always tyres will be one of the biggest factors...

but then again your right hand is pretty good too.

slowing down in wet condition and bieng smooth in brake application (not slamming on brakes) is the best and cheapest improvement u can do.

:first:

edit: damn u Lee just beat me ......

[WINJA]

get a good front tyre , go and practice stoppys , not just for the hell of it but to get the feel of lodaing up the front corectly , on my gsxr1000 with a good tyre i can still get a skip or slide on the front with careless brake use.
a stoppy is demonstarted in my profile pic

[OMG]

As qldzxr250 said, apply the brake smoothly, once the suspension has compressed, then you can put a lot more pressure on (you'd be surprised at just how much you can brake before it locks up). But you need to practice this, so find an empty car park somewhere. Also, when you are applying lots of front brake, you need to be fairly light on the rear as it will lock quite easily. Because it is easy to lock the rear, you also need to grab the clutch too to stop it stalling.

[FROSTY]

it aint the bike or the tyres--Its you dude --practice practice practice ---Ohh and check the tyre pressures

[sefer]

Yeah well like I said, I'm aware that the first two times were totally my fault, just wasn't paying enough attention and going too fast, car in front pulled left and slammed the brakes on (in wet - first time), and car stopped quickly at predestrian crossing (no one on it/waiting, in damp - second time). Both times I was preoccupied..

Doesn't change the fact that my bike doesn't break well though, probably only 70% (if that) of what I use to get from the zxr (twin front discs help obviously), and the forks feel like they compress a good 3-4cm as soon as I hit the brakes. It's something I've been aware of since getting the bike, but has only really become an issue since the roads are wet. The tyres probably account for 80% of the problem (they are shocking on wet/smoove surfaces like roads snakes), but as my daily commute is only 10-15min in traffic (a whole lot less outside of peak times) I can't see that replacing them will help enough to warrent the cost right now. They just won't warm-up enough.

[kickingzebra]

IRCs are notoriously glasslike, been there done that, but learning the dynamics of the bike you are on is important, and one could do a lot worse than practice like mad, emergency braking in all situations.
As far as I can see tyres are a worthwhile bet, personally I wouldn't bother with the suspension yet.

Do you have adjustable preload and or damping on the forks? They are the first places to stop outside of oil and springs. (which get expensive)

Also check the fork seals. The bike is pretty new, so might not be a problem, but if there is any oily residue left on your finger after running it up the fork staunchions, then consider getting the fork seals redone. (if they leak, it loses oil, suspension no longer works as well)

[paturoa]

Sounds silly but if it is diving under brakes that is good.... however....if it continues to dive and then bottoms out or becomes stiff/hard for the last part of the travel that is VERY bad. Too "hard" front forks will degrade braking where there are bumps.

Start with a good front tyre, much cheaper than an off!

Find a post or site about suspension setup and get at least the static sag sorted and then get the right weight fork oil - both cheap

Like the suggestion above about go have a play / practice.

I normaly ride with 2 fingers always resting on the front brake lever if it is dry and one if it is wet. That way for reflex braking (oh shit moments) I don't do front lockups.

[Motu]

I'm with Frosty - try riding with my knobs and soft long travel suspension....I don't have lock ups,and if I do I get them under control pretty quick.It's all in your hands...and feet.

[Cleve]

Breaking practice? Isn't that with a hammer or some other tool?

[jonbuoy]

Its hard to stop your instincts, which tell you to brake NOW. I have had the same problem "panic" braking when things surprise me in the past, now my finger might twitch towards the brake but I stop it before it gets there. Just practice it in your head.

[Flyingpony]

Each time the front and rear has locked, stalled the engine, and despite any efforts to regain wheel motion (releasing the break as much as possible/totally) I can't seem to get out of the slide.

I'm still running the stock tyres on my FXR150 and we all know how poor their grip is in the wet ... I too have nearly ended rubber side up or collecting vehicles. Sometimes it was my fault, sometimes not. I've since learnt how to ride more defensively and safely.

I've never had the front lock up, don't ride with the front covered but have the clutch always covered.

Any how, here's what I know will help you:

- Double your following distance and ride slower.

- Watch cars four positions ahead, not the one right in front of you.

- Keep a sharp eye out for what's happening all around you and pay attention to the road surface condition.

- Never ever apply back brake when just starting to do heavy braking. In fact, I only use the back then when it's all safe and need to transfer braking from front to rear if nearly stationary.

At the start of heavy braking, the rear wheel will be losing downward pressure as weight is transferred forward. Any braking will cause it to lock up & instantly stall the engine - yes even with a covered clutch, then the rear will step out and the fun begins.

- The front provides you with 80% of your braking power.

- AVOID PAINT!!

- And what all the others have written.

[sefer]

Its hard to stop your instincts, which tell you to brake NOW. I have had the same problem "panic" braking when things surprise me in the past, now my finger might twitch towards the brake but I stop it before it gets there. Just practice it in your head.

Actually you might have a point here, I never covered the brake on the zxr and never had a problem, but since getting the KR, and covering the clutch nearly always, I've gotten into the habit of covering the brake as well. Might be something to think about.

[qldzxr250a]

personally the clutch is one of the last things i have covered because engine braking should be a major factor when stopping.

with the clutch in u have lost the advantages of engine compression to help slow u down wich can make a huge difference.

next time u find a carpark all to your self do some tests stopping from about 60kmph:

- just the front brake
- just the rear brake
- just engine braking (cycling through gears whilst slipping the clutch to avoid compression lock)
- both front and rear brakes
- and the all of the above at once

take practice to master but once u do you will notice huge difference in stopping distances.

i never have the clutch in when braking until im stationary. :yes:

[hXc]

personally the clutch is one of the last things i have covered because engine braking should be a major factor when stopping.

with the clutch in u have lost the advantages of engine compression to help slow u down wich can make a huge difference.
He rides a 2 stroke. 2 stroke = no engine braking.

One thing that may help is spelling braking right!!!

But also, Flyingpony: When emergency braking or having to stop in a short distance then you should be using both your brakes. Yes, your front brake provides you with almost 80% of your braking, but you risk throwing the back up. So you use both of them, applying the back brake lightly first!

Well that's what I was told in my basic skills test and what has worked for me in a couple of sticky situations.

Using the gears will help as you don't have much engine braking, being a 2 stroke.

Hope that helps.

[jonbuoy]

Actually you might have a point here, I never covered the brake on the zxr and never had a problem, but since getting the KR, and covering the clutch nearly always, I've gotten into the habit of covering the brake as well. Might be something to think about.

I always have my fingers over the brake just not touching, fair point covering the clutch when your giving it some welly though...

[WINJA]

He rides a 2 stroke. 2 stroke = no engine braking.

One thing that may help is spelling braking right!!!

But also, Flyingpony: When emergency braking or having to stop in a short distance then you should be using both your brakes. Yes, your front brake provides you with almost 80% of your braking, but you risk throwing the back up. So you use both of them, applying the back brake lightly first!

Well that's what I was told in my basic skills test and what has worked for me in a couple of sticky situations.

Using the gears will help as you don't have much engine braking, being a 2 stroke.

Hope that helps.

IF THE BIKE IS CAPABLE OF DOING A STOPPY THEN YOU MIGHT AS WELL LEAVE THE BACK BRAKE ALONE ESPECIALLY IN AN EMERGENCY , THE BACK BRAKE CAN ONLY MAKE THINGS WORSE ESPECIALLY IF YOUR DEDICATING BRAIN POWER TO OPERATING IT , A LOT OF THE BASIC SKILLS TEST GUYS ARE NOT UP WITH THE PLAY WITH A MODERN/SEMI MODERN SPORTS BIKE,
IVE DONE A LOT OF EMERGENCY STOPS IN MY TIME FROM SPEEDS THAT MOST WOULDNT CONSIDER DOING ON THE ROAD AND THE BACK BRAKE IS A FUCK UP WAITING TO HAPPEN

[WINJA]

my special tip for braking is see if the lever perch can be moved closer to the triple clamp , reason being you get better levearge pulling further out on the lever and you also have better control

[sefer]

Sadly the Krr is a comuter that just happens to look like a sports bike (still fairly quick however :) ), and as such there is pretty much no adjustment anywhere.


One thing that may help is spelling braking right!!!

LOL, fair enough. Now ask me what my job is.... ;)

BTW, there is NEVER any reason to use more than one exclaimation mark :p

[sefer]

Well intresting... I was playing around today and discovered that hard braking (yes with the clutch in :p) causes my engine to stall pretty much 80% of the time. That's why I haven't been able to recover from the slide, the engine bogs out, stalls, and isn't warm enought/doesn't have enough traction to restart via bump causing the rear wheel to remain locked.

Of course in the situations I've described I've usually kept the bike in gear and focused on braking, but do remember trying to bump the engine while still sliding on the first occasion in an effort to regain some control.

Guessing the engine running to cold is the problem, might be time to break out the old duct tape and see if I can get the temp gauge above the bottom line :)

[kickingzebra]

So what do you do for a job? big carpark there? for stoppy practice?

[sefer]

Well lets just say there may be a generation of New Zealand children who can't spell, nor think that being able to spell is that important ;)

And no most of the places I work are not places I really want to be seen doing stoppies or anything else 'dodgy' :D

I'm actually training ATM and was practicing in the car park there :)

[kickingzebra]

Bah, rubbish, every kid needs a dodgy role model! Teaching then I take it.

[sefer]

LOL the KRR is a cooling machine! I blocked off 2/3s of the radiator, took her for a 20min spin and the temp gauge still barely moved.. Back to the drawing board I guess :)

[kickingzebra]

If it is running cool, there shouldn't be a problem, does the exhaust get warm? there is no way on earth an engine is going to run for 10 or 20 minutes hard, and not get up to operating temperature. If you are worried about it stalling under braking, you could wind the idle up a bit.