NCEA Results - high expectations a bad thing?

[wharekura]

Got the results regarding my 15yo NCEA results this morning (level equal to school cert for us oldies out there) and she just passed. If it wasnt for her internal assessments it might had been a different outcome.

The wife is saying a pass is a pass and that the girl is no honor student. But I have high expectations and expect more.

I want my kids with some sort of degree to give them better chances in life. A degree does not guarantee them opportunities (and it tends to be who you know not what you know) but I think it can provide an extra "stamp" when applying for jobs - even if its a checkout person at paksav, a job is a job. In fact, when I was hiring it wasn't the degrees I wanted it was can I talk to the person and could they pass a technical test.

For the parents out there - should I be elated that she has passed and just get over my stubbornness?

[Banditbandit]

Yeah .. be happy she passed ... she's only 15 .. and she's probably a very balanced person - balancing school work with the rest of her life, in a very proper way. Don't load her up with guilt trips and inferiority by telling her that she is not good enough ... a pass is a pass and she can move on to the next stage ... that's all that counts

I barely passed the old School Certificate ... now I have post-grad qualifications and hold a senior management position in a tertiary teaching institute ... And before that I was paid as a journalist - to write .. despite getting 51% for School C English and failing sixth form English ...

Life chances and futures are NOT determined by school marks at age 15, despite what some people think.

[SMOKEU]

Fuck NCEA. That shit was far more difficult than the diploma and degree level study I've done at CPIT. NCEA is usually a waste of time, as very few employers give a fuck about it, and there are much easier ways to get tertiary level study entry. I think I got something like 3 level 2 NCEA credits in the whole of year 12.

[Voltaire]

My Son is waiting for his, I hope he passes as these bits of paper make transition to the next level just that bit easier.
I had clever mates who went to Uni, its no guarantee to success and the student loans may actually be a burden.

I'm hoping he gets an Electrical Apprenticeship, earn while you learn.

[Laava]

It is great when your kids get results, and it is all a notch in their belts ( and yours) but is much more important for them to be happy in themselves and this is where you will have the biggest influence on them. Education can be done later if needed.
As a qualified builder, I have been asked once only for proof of my quals when applying for jobs.

[mashman]

Woohoo, more sub-standard meat for the grinder.

[Tazz]

Depends on the subjects shes doing imo. I'd probably be a little worried as it gets tougher in 6th form/level two (obviously) and if you want her to do well she will need to put in more effort than scraping a pass at level one, which realistically is pretty easy to do (or it was when I did it. They were very generous with credits).

However, entry to uni is a bit of a joke and if she is willing to put in the time later on she will get a degree easily no matter what happens in high school (this is coming from someone who only did music and biology in 7th form/level 3 and still went to uni later on (only to realize how pathetic it is unless you're doing engineering or a few particular sciences).)

[bogan]

Speaking not as a parent but as a high achiever, having an end goal helps a lot. I was fortunate enough to have my career picked out by then, and it gives context/motivation to what the learning is all for.

[rapid van cleef]

It will only matter if you NEED those qualifications to get onto the next step of your career path. My brother wanted to change career mid 40s and emmigrate here. But as he didnt pass high school Maths or English, deciding instead to drop out and go get a high paying job, years later he is now fooked as he cant proove his education in any way, cant get onto a high qualification course, cant get a visa, no longer in the high paying job and too old by UK standards to change jobs!!! I have a mate that also got to 40 ish yrs and decided a change was in order but needed a degree to reach his goal. He also did not have his high school Maths so had to study it for a year in night classes to pass the same exam sat by high school kids to get onto the degree he wanted to get the job he wanted. But that was in the UK and getting onto a degree there, in my experience is difficult. Not having those basic Maths and English qualifications at around Level 2 can bite you in the arse years later.( but thats from an English perspective where its a lot more competitive due to the amount of people) I work closely with a lot of Y13 kids and I am consistently suprised by how little they need to do to get onto a degree course.

[Gremlin]

Just be aware that depending on what she wants to do, some courses do have high entry requirements.

NCEA 1 is probably not a required qualification for anything (ie, they want more than that), but it's the key to the next step and so on.

On the other hand, not everyone is cut out for Uni, and trades and the like earn plenty of money, still needed by the country etc. Biggest risk is just floating through school, and then not really have a direction or goal and then she could just "drift".

I had my whole school path laid out, law in Uni, before realising mid way through high school I didn't like law, well, bugger it, changed tack and did IT instead, so don't have a path too locked either.

[mashman]

It will only matter if you NEED those qualifications to get onto the next step of your career path. My brother wanted to change career mid 40s and emmigrate here. But as he didnt pass high school Maths or English, deciding instead to drop out and go get a high paying job, years later he is now fooked as he cant proove his education in any way, cant get onto a high qualification course, cant get a visa, no longer in the high paying job and too old by UK standards to change jobs!!! I have a mate that also got to 40 ish yrs and decided a change was in order but needed a degree to reach his goal. He also did not have his high school Maths so had to study it for a year in night classes to pass the same exam sat by high school kids to get onto the degree he wanted to get the job he wanted. But that was in the UK and getting onto a degree there, in my experience is difficult. Not having those basic Maths and English qualifications at around Level 2 can bite you in the arse years later.( but thats from an English perspective where its a lot more competitive due to the amount of people) I work closely with a lot of Y13 kids and I am consistently suprised by how little they need to do to get onto a degree course.

Not sure about England, but when I were a older lad in Scotland and giving a shit not about my lack of qualifications, there was a year long college course that you could take that would earn you enough credits for university entry. Praps they've done away with that as the only criteria for entry to the course was that you were over 21.

[TheDemonLord]

I went through the second lot of NCEA, TBH NCEA doesn't mean dick, level 3 kinda matters if you want to go to Uni, but it isn't exactly hard to get into Uni. Myself I work in IT for a large hourly rate, and although I completed NCEA level 3 - I could have done better if I wanted to.

Doing well in Level 3 is a good goal to aim at, if you are so inclined, but its not a deal breaker

[Laava]

Woohoo, more sub-standard meat for the grinder.

Bahahaha!
Although that is funny, thank fuck it is not true!

[Swoop]

Thankfully any "qualification" is merely a licence to learn. And learn we all do.

When you received your driving licence did you know it all, or did you learn a LOT more one you had passed?

Most pieces of paper are a gateway. It allows confirmation of purpose and the recognition of some skills. Judging the whole person from it would be a bit silly.


High expectations? Not a bad thing, but remember to encourage a pathway rather than a destination.

[awa355]

Thankfully any "qualification" is merely a licence to learn. And learn we all do.

When you received your driving licence did you know it all, or did you learn a LOT more one you had passed?

.

I got my licence at 15, and yea, at the time I pretty much knew it all and there wasn't too much left to learn, :yawn::yawn:

Next year, I turned 16, left school, started work, had a car crash, starting paying my own way and WOW!! there was ' life ' all ahead of me. :Oi::Oi:

[imdying]

Not sure about England, but when I were a older lad in Scotland and giving a shit not about my lack of qualifications, there was a year long college course that you could take that would earn you enough credits for university entry. Praps they've done away with that as the only criteria for entry to the course was that you were over 21.They do have those here, for people between school leaver and mid twenties. His brother would be fine though, as at that age, the tertiary provider's head of whatever degree will conduct an interview to ascertain suitability. Easy as that.

[Jantar]

Got the results regarding my 15yo NCEA results this morning (level equal to school cert for us oldies out there) and she just passed. If it wasnt for her internal assessments it might had been a different outcome........
And right there is the biggest downfall of NCEA. It is too easy to get credits via internal assessment, so many bright pupils only do as much as is required to get those credits without really trying. After all, there is no longer any risk in failing. Pass or not, a year 11 pupil still goes on to year 12 the next year. Under the old system, a pupil had to get a minimum result in School Cert to even get into the 6th form. Then he/she had to pass UE to get into the 7th form. Then without a bursary or scholarship many university courses were not available, so a pass there was required as well. With NCEA the education standard of many pupils entering University is much lower, and it comes as real shock to find out that if you fail a course then you can't advance.

Lessons in failure are no longer given so many of todays young ones are really out of their depth.

[noobi]

I finished 7th form in 2010, have been at uni since then.

Fortunately for me, I was one of the kind of 'brainy', 'nerdy', 'weird' kind of people. Although sometimes I wonder whether fortunate is the right word.
So school was never difficult, but to be honest I skated along by doing and learning what I wanted to, not what I needed to. So as a consequence I didn't quite do as well as I would expect. NCEA results were above average, mostly because I enjoyed what I was learning, not because I had to be in class.
I was never pushed towards academic achievement, both parents didn't finish or do well at school. Once I was about 14 I knew more math than both of them. So in our household, I was doing alright so why push it.
I wanted to carry on learning and doing shit, so decided doing engineering was a step forward, I only just got in to AU. That hurdle is pretty big, it has the highest point entry level of any course I think. So it depends on what uni course you're trying for as to how easy it is to get into. I'm doing very well academically now, with an above average GPA in Honours Chemical and Materials Engineering. However figuring out how to work towards something I wanted took me a while.

Having been at university for 3 years now, there are some people who are only there doing business/commerce/economics/philosophy/arts/roman literature/etc because they think you have to have a degree to be successful at the moment. So you dig yourself into a 30k + hole for a piece of paper that doesn't really mean anything. I think some degrees are more useful than others, with much greater career opportunities, but unless you have a passion for something, why do a degree in something you don't like.

If you find something you enjoy doing and have a passion for but that thing doesn't specifically align with a tertiary education, who cares, follow it anyway.

In saying that, I think at least finishing school looks better in an interview than a Bachelor of Arts majoring in Philosophy.

What I want to get at is that no matter how testably 'smart' a person is, if you don't have a goal, you will never try to achieve anything and you probably wont do well. Once you finish 5th form you usually get to choose the classes you take in 6th and definitely 7th form. I hate giving out advice on things I don't have experience in, but consider having a talk about what your daughter really enjoys doing, what she wants to do with herself, and maybe why her results were the way they are.

[mashman]

They do have those here, for people between school leaver and mid twenties. His brother would be fine though, as at that age, the tertiary provider's head of whatever degree will conduct an interview to ascertain suitability. Easy as that.

I, for one, was greatful for those courses... plus if my kids are growing weary of school I'll happily drag them out and set the job hunting to generate some cash for them courses at a later date. If the Vogons haven't paid us a visit by then/


Lessons in failure are no longer given so many of todays young ones are really out of their depth.

Lessons in failure? Sorry, but I find that amusing. Firstly one needs to care as to whether one fails or not. Failing that, pun intended, there is only right or wrong which has hopefully been instilled at an earlier age. Failure simply doesn't matter.

[Jantar]

In saying that, I think at least finishing school looks better in an interview than a Bachelor of Arts majoring in Philosophy.
..
Hey! What's wrong with Philosophy? Its a method, not a subject. :rolleyes:
I'm currently studying for a PhD (Doctor of Philosophy) in climate science and hydrology.

[Jantar]

........ Firstly one needs to care as to whether one fails or not. Failing that, pun intended, there is only right or wrong which has hopefully been instilled at an earlier age. Failure simply doesn't matter.

Absolutely. That is why, back in the 60s, students were taught that if they failed a level, how to correct that failure and get back on track. It was the attitude that a fail is NOT the end of the world, and we have the ability to eitherovercome it and try again or to change track and get around it. Modern students are taught that failure doesn't exist and hence, when they do get a fail for the first time, it is outside their understanding.

[noobi]

Hey! What's wrong with Philosophy? Its a method, not a subject. :rolleyes:
I'm currently studying for a PhD (Doctor of Philosophy) in climate science and hydrology.

Ha.
A BA in philosophy isn't quite on the same level as a PhD in anything.

Not all philosophies are created equally.
How philosophical.

[Jantar]

Ha.
A BA in anything isn't quite on the same level as a NCEA level 1 in any physical subject.
.......

There, fixed that for you. :bleh:

[Ocean1]

For the parents out there - should I be elated that she has passed and just get over my stubbornness?

She's 15. Her brain is undergoing the equivalent of a complete re-format. Be glad she's actually engaged with education at all.

And buy her a present for passing, there's never an age where you shouldn't take an opportunity for some positive reinforcement.

[Berries]

For the parents out there - should I be elated that she has passed and just get over my stubbornness?
Yes. As said above, be glad she is not knocking back the Cody's at the skate park and is actually at school. At 15 I left school with one O level and one CSE so she is way ahead of me.


To be fair, my Dad did then kick me out but hey, everything happens for a reason.

[mashman]

Absolutely. That is why, back in the 60s, students were taught that if they failed a level, how to correct that failure and get back on track. It was the attitude that a fail is NOT the end of the world, and we have the ability to eitherovercome it and try again or to change track and get around it. Modern students are taught that failure doesn't exist and hence, when they do get a fail for the first time, it is outside their understanding.

True, although I dunno about needing to be taught what failure is let alone being taught that it does not exist. I think we all know what failure is, but many just don't care. As highlighted by Noobi (and others), if you don't have a goal, then you aren't going to fail. Still though, that doesn't mean that a person doesn't understand what failure is.

I for one didn't care, still don't to a lesser extent... generally when others are relying on me I consciously try not to fail.

[Banditbandit]

What I want to get at is that no matter how testably 'smart' a person is, if you don't have a goal, you will never try to achieve anything and you probably wont do well.

Not my experience at all .. I have no goals, never have had - I try hard to drop out (I've managed to drop out of three universities and NOT be part of the system for short periods ) .. I suppose dropping out is a goal ... oh yeah. and scoring the next lot of weed ...

But despite having visible tattoos which can't be covered with clothes, being a biker rebel .... tell everyone the system sucks ... people keep offering me jobs and high money ... I currently earn in the top tax bracket and pay tax to support several beneficiaries ... I take the jobs because they allow me to have more than one bike and a boat ... and eat reasonably well ... and because they amuse me ...

So who knows ??? Life is life ... enjoy it as it comes or leave ...

[wharekura]

...Life chances and futures are NOT determined by school marks at age 15, despite what some people think.
inspirational response that made me less stubborn. The household thanks you.

[wharekura]

My Son is waiting for his...
Hope he has passed but sounds like you have plan B anyway

[wharekura]

...As a qualified builder, I have been asked once only for proof of my quals when applying for jobs.
dad in law is a retired builder and he has helped so much on our house we got jan 2012. Redone bathrooms, got rid of rot (replaced joist) added deck and so on. I am a technician but helping him do the builds blows me away.

[wharekura]

Depends on the subjects shes doing imo. I'd probably be a little worried as it gets tougher in 6th form/level two (obviously) and if you want her to do well she will need to put in more effort than scraping a pass at level one, which realistically is pretty easy to do (or it was when I did it. They were very generous with credits).
I am thinking that too that she needs to be a bit more serious - so thanks for your comments.

[wharekura]

High expectations? Not a bad thing, but remember to encourage a pathway rather than a destination.
My guideless (stubborn determination is what others call it) in life for my kids is
1. Stay out of trouble (no convictions)
2. Stay off the drugs (there's plenty of legal alternatives)
3. Don't get pregnant until you can support the child

And my 4th is have a career.

Some say things happen for a reason and in some ways because I stuffed up early, it has made me determined to have my 4 points for my lot.

[wharekura]

I got my licence at 15, and yea, at the time I pretty much knew it all
Im 43 and I still know it all, plus a bit more :rolleyes:

[wharekura]

I hate giving out advice on things I don't have experience in, but consider having a talk about what your daughter really enjoys doing, what she wants to do with herself
The advice you hated to give is the advice I used last night when the wife and I had the "talk" to said daughter.
What shes wants to do is not what I wanted to hear (sing and go to London to be with One Direction!)
After calming down and much kicking of the ferns in the garden I realised at least she has a goal. I said if this is her true path, then I promised I will take it seriously once I see her on stage for an audition.
All of a sudden, she was nervous.

[wharekura]

...be glad she is not knocking back the Cody's...To be fair, my Dad did then kick me out but hey, everything happens for a reason.
We have a little more class, we drink Chambord thank you very much, and I cant afford 18 bottles of that. I believe things happen for a reason and in similar circumstances as you, hence my post about being stubborn and having high expectations for my kids.

[Gremlin]

What shes wants to do is not what I wanted to hear (sing and go to London to be with One Direction!)
After calming down and much kicking of the ferns in the garden I realised at least she has a goal. I said if this is her true path, then I promised I will take it seriously once I see her on stage for an audition.
All of a sudden, she was nervous.
As you say, she has a goal. Right, support it, get an assessment of her real potential (whether she can actually sing and has a chance). Always good to get behind your child and help them succeed, but on the flip side (and not saying she is one) some kids drift through school, don't bother getting a job, have the cruisy life from mum and dad etc. Heard of one recently, where child is late teens, dropped out of school, parents going through hell as child leaves whenever a confrontation looms, then returns a few weeks later, twists parents around their finger etc. Pretends to get motivated but gives options only to get a rise (singing, corrections officer etc)

Having some sort of recognised qualifications at least keeps some options for them. School is easy when you're mid teens, not so easy trying to gain the same things when you're in your twenties.

Seems you have good policies, now you just have to keep them on the straight and narrow :yes:

[TheDemonLord]

The advice you hated to give is the advice I used last night when the wife and I had the "talk" to said daughter.
What shes wants to do is not what I wanted to hear (sing and go to London to be with One Direction!)


Fuck that - Get her a Slayer album and tell her to stop listening to shitty boy bands or you will dis-inherit her

[Banditbandit]

Fuck that - Get her a Slayer album and tell her to stop listening to shitty boy bands or you will dis-inherit her

I'm sure your mommy and daddy think exactly the opposite of your musical tastes.

[Squiggles]

This year will be a surprisingly big step up from her level 1 subjects.


Pass or not, a year 11 pupil still goes on to year 12 the next year. Under the old system, a pupil had to get a minimum result in School Cert to even get into the 6th form.

It's been a while since I've seen a school that will let a student advance in a subject without gaining the level before it. Yes it's theoretically possible to, but is rarely the done thing.



And buy her a present for passing, there's never an age where you shouldn't take an opportunity for some positive reinforcement.

Positive reinforcement is always good.


Having some sort of recognised qualifications at least keeps some options for them.

And that's what it's all about.

[Jantar]

..... Pass or not, a year 11 pupil still goes on to year 12 the next year. Under the old system, a pupil had to get a minimum result in School Cert to even get into the 6th form. .....


...It's been a while since I've seen a school that will let a student advance in a subject without gaining the level before it. Yes it's theoretically possible to, but is rarely the done thing......

A student who does not achieve in level 1 can not advance to level 2 in any subject where that level 1 standard is a pre-requisite. But they can and do still advance to year 12 even if they are still doing level 1 subjects. They can take other level 2 subjects where they do have the pre-requisites.

[HTFU]

Good idea if you want your kid to do well is to ask them each week what they are working on for each subject, how many credits its worth etc. You will find this keeps them honest about the work they should be doing. Don't trust the teachers to push them and motivate them, half are too lazy the other half are too busy. Even sit down with the sprog and go through the student handout they should get for each unit of work. Often they need a kick start from someone who cares to get into the work.

Student - Parent - Teacher - all need to be on the same page about what is being done or not done.

[DrunkenMistake]

A student who does not achieve in level 1 can not advance to level 2 in any subject where that level 1 standard is a pre-requisite. But they can and do still advance to year 12 even if they are still doing level 1 subjects. They can take other level 2 subjects where they do have the pre-requisites.

^^ this is pretty much it.

Normally with NCEA you either have exams or internal assessments,
Occasionally someone will just Achieve Level 1 and may have worked their ass off all year but all it came down to was failing exams,
some people are just no good at them,
Normally if that is the case when you go onto Level 2 they tend to put those kids into classes that focus more on internal assessments to get their credits.

works for some and doesnt work for others, so long as your kid passes I would be happy just make sure they pull finger in the subjects that matter to their future career

[wharekura]

Good idea if you want your kid to do well is to ask them each week what they are working on for each subject, how many credits its worth etc. You will find this keeps them honest about the work they should be doing. Don't trust the teachers to push them and motivate them, half are too lazy the other half are too busy. Even sit down with the sprog and go through the student handout they should get for each unit of work.
This is what we do. I email teachers for progress if there are problems. I follow up on those lovely teachers that don't bother, with phone calls and offers of visits - this tends to work.
Thanks to online results at Hamilton Girls', we keep a close eye progress.

The hard part is trying to help with their homework on things I no shit about, like knowing what an angle of a triangle is based on certain things. Another hard thing is giving opinionated views when asked on topics such as politics (e.g. the Israel - Arab 7 day war)

[Ocean1]

This is what we do. I email teachers for progress if there are problems. I follow up on those lovely teachers that don't bother, with phone calls and offers of visits - this tends to work.
Thanks to online results at Hamilton Girls', we keep a close eye progress.

That sounds like a good idea. Certainly better than the hoops we had to jump through to talk to teachers about problems.


The hard part is trying to help with their homework on things I no shit about, like knowing what an angle of a triangle is based on certain things. Another hard thing is giving opinionated views when asked on topics such as politics (e.g. the Israel - Arab 7 day war)

Heh. But you gota do the help thing. And doing it properly means showing her some of that stickability you've been telling her all about. So suck it up and learn some basic trig with her, it'll do you as much good as it will her.

[HTFU]

The hard part is trying to help with their homework on things I no shit about, like knowing what an angle of a triangle is based on certain things. Another hard thing is giving opinionated views when asked on topics such as politics (e.g. the Israel - Arab 7 day war)

For the hard stuff use youtube or Khan Academy etc. Heaps of good tutorial videos to work through. Keep them from hibernating into the bedroom with a device. Sit down at a good work station and watch the videos together and then apply the knowledge. Well worth the investment. Good on you for caring. :2thumbsup

[The Reibz]

My guideless (stubborn determination is what others call it) in life for my kids is
1. Stay out of trouble (no convictions)
2. Stay off the drugs (there's plenty of legal alternatives)
3. Don't get pregnant until you can support the child


According to your guidelines 95% off all the people I know or associate with are completely fucked. Including myself.
As far as legal alternatives to drugs go, trust me friend. You don't want your kinds becoming addicted to alcohol, just go ask my mother what she thinks of me after a couple of beers...

And with rule number 3, technically 99.9% of the country shouldn't be allowed to have kids

[wharekura]

According to your guidelines 95% off all the people I know or associate with are completely fucked. Including myself.
And me which is why I don't want my kids repeating my mistakes.


As far as legal alternatives to drugs go, trust me friend. You don't want your kinds becoming addicted to alcohol
She is at the age of experimenting with crap so if she is going to experiment, at least it be with booze which is legal and sticks to "guideline" point #1. And booze with moderation. Not an 18 pak of crap codys - but try things like different wines, boutique beers etc. Hopefully teaching the good side booze (if there is such thing) - thus the enjoyment with family/friends and to compliment meals.

Once my son is 18 - I will be teaching him the various Whiskeys and avoiding the sins such as using ice.